"Keep the Cat Free"

17.05.2012

FELIX

The student voice of Imperial College London since 1949

Sexism at Imperial College

There's a way to go in the fight against discrimination, writes Stephen Smith
Stephen Smith
Sharing
girlsgirlsgirls.jpg
The poster for the WSET event

Not here, surely? Sexism is everywhere: in the media, in politics, in the arts, but at universities? The centres of liberal thought and tolerance? Where everyone is open-minded and friendly and – above all – extremely egalitarian? If there were ever a place where sexism shouldn’t exist, it is here. And yet it persists like an ugly, cunning mouse peskily dodging the hungry cat of equality.

In lectures, (in most of them, in fact) I listen to the irritating chorus of male voices in the rows behind me discussing the sexual attractiveness of the women in the audience. Life for these boys (they can hardly be called men) is black and white: the girls are divided neatly into fuckable and unfuckable, hot and ugly, those who are “fit” and those who are “wastegash”. And all of this within earshot of the very same women they are “classifying”.

To point out a particularly attractive person to a friend is normal; to classify a whole cohort of humans by their looks – dismissing the majority with the awful term “wastegash” – is slightly worse than unpleasant. Perhaps these boys should be reminded that fourteen Oxford students were suspended for identical behaviour two years ago.

In a slightly less provocative example earlier this year, a mathematics professor instructed his male students to get girlfriends. His hope was that their newfound loves could write up their coursework for them, while the boys got on with the serious business of mathematical study. For most of the boys in the lecture this was understood to be banter; but for the girls it set up an unnecessary divide, ostracising them from the overwhelming male majority: science is for men, typing is for women.

But these are just stupid boys being boorish with friends and an old professor out of touch with modern social norms, sexism is to be expected; surely we can find more rounded views from the mature, creative students who write for the student newspaper? But no. Felix, too, has a healthy dose of misogyny in its pages.

You will, perhaps, remember the satirical character “Gurl with Opinions”. To the writer of these dreadful and unfunny articles, girls’ opinions involve how they look, animal welfare, and... nothing else. Combining the usual straw-feminist non-arguments (“this guy held a door open for me and I was like, I can open doors, you know!”) and typical women-should-care-only-about-looks sexual stereotyping (“depressed girls just give up on themselves and let their hair go all frizzy and start wearing baggy jeans”) these columns served no purpose but self-gratifying sexism. Hahaha, imagine girls having opinions. Hahaha, their opinions are all so trivial and unimportant. Hahaha...

On top of this, the usually amusing Hangman regularly leaves the realm of humour to enter the wonderful world of misogyny. This year, the infamous section of the paper described successful businesswoman Deborah Meaden as “a grumpy bitch” and told her “you sacrifice your entire life… to the detriment of your children’s happiness, any respect from the male species, and any form of femininity (like you had that anyway).”

Discussing female Imperial students, it divided them into those who are “actually pretty fit” and those who could be described as “some dumpy short bitch who wouldn’t even get a second look if she went to UCL.” On top of this, three weeks ago Hangman said of female readers, “God knows, it’s hard thinking down to your level”, and last week said that misogyny was “not a viewpoint [but] a default”. Hopefully I don’t need to explain what is so very sexist about these comments. If I were female, these examples alone would be enough to put me off working for the newspaper.

Admittedly, Hangman is a section that explicitly aims to be offensive, and I wouldn’t begrudge Felix the right to print “humorous” sexist comments if there are people willing to write them. But the fact that there are students who write these articles – and who presumably find them funny – suggests that feminism still has a lot of work to do: if some of the most intelligent, open-minded people in the country find sexism and misogyny amusing, what hope is there for everyone else?

All of this takes place against the background of what – for the students at least – defines Imperial: the gender ratio. Imperial College, the country’s top science and technology university, constantly admits twice as many male applicants as female ones. Although this is certainly not a conscious bias by admissions tutors, to an outsider it implicitly suggests that, in the world of Imperial, men are considered better at science and engineering than women. This is clearly something likely to make a potential female applicant decide against applying to the university.

All this (you would think) should be fertile ground for a student society like Women in Science, Engineering and Technology (WSET) to challenge perceptions and make a difference. Although I have great respect for their excellent breast cancer fund-raising activities, in the area of female empowerment they appear to have done more to entrench stereotypes than to challenge them.

You may recall a particularly alluring advert for their club night called “Girls Girls Girls” described as “Imperial’s best looking Metric night”. It was set to feature “jugglers, belly dancers, and lots of sexy scientists!” and attempted to lure people along with the promise that “Our sexy ladies will be taking down your bets throughout the night”. Undoubtedly, the night was just intended to be light-hearted fun (what better way to attract Imperial students than with the promise of girls, girls, girls?), but when the closest thing our university has to a feminist society seems to encourage the lazy perception of women as tools for sexual gratification, something is clearly wrong.

Obviously, this is not just a problem at Imperial. At least we have not reached the level of The Beaver (the student newspaper of the LSE) whose editor faced calls to stand down after printing jokes about rape. Moreover, by the standards of the outside world – where sexism pervades every part of life from The Sun to the billboards on Cromwell Road – Imperial is positively progressive.

But we really need to aim higher. As students we should be leading the fight against sexism, not helping to perpetuate discrimination. If you care – and I hope you do – then read a book, write an article, go on a protest, maybe even start the Imperial Feminist Society. And, most importantly, get angry. Sexism: it’s everywhere and it’s worth getting really fucking annoyed about.

Comments (84 comments)

Post a comment

Noose Loosener

Friday February 10 2012 01:20

Perhaps the irony in the “God knows, it’s hard thinking down to your level” comment was lost to you: it was part of an advert to encourage female contributors to Hangman.

Thomas Parsons

Friday February 10 2012 01:42

I'm glad someone actually gets it

Michael Thorpe

Friday February 10 2012 02:05

Well this is pretty much spot on.

Padraic Calpin

Friday February 10 2012 10:40

@Noose Loosener That's possibly the most tenuous claim of irony I have ever seen.

To the writer of this article, thank you. This piece clearly sets out the problems that seem to plague this uni. It shocks me that a week after the Felix front page discussed imperial's efforts to support women in science, the hangman page would decide that "WHORE-iscopes" was appropriate to print.

Thomas Parsons

Friday February 10 2012 10:53

Also: feminist soc? yes please.

Courtney Williams

Friday February 10 2012 11:16

Thank you for writing this. And thank you to everyone who reads this and agrees with it, rather than going down the lazy "teh wimmins be hysterical" route. (Hysterical being itself a gendered insult...) It's much harder to examine your own behaviour, and that of others around you, than to dismiss people who find a problem with it.

Only one problem: "the usually amusing Hangman"? Have we been reading different papers?

@Noose Loosener: The fact something like that could be considered a joke illustrates Stephen's point perfectly. Replace "female" with "ethnic minority" and see if it's still "funny" to you.

Hung-man

Friday February 10 2012 11:52

Taking the Deborah Meaden example: you cannot simply use an individual attack on one person as an example of feminism. Does this make Harry Enfield sexist? There is a difference between attacking an entire sex and one individual of that sex - duh.

And when Hangman called Keith O'Nions a "vegetable" is that sexist against men?

Come on, take a break. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Ethel Bardsley

Friday February 10 2012 11:53

A note about hangman being "deliberately offensive therefore funny and humorous" - satire is a tool for the oppressed, and to mock the weak is not just unfunny but vulgar.

Fail

Friday February 10 2012 11:54

@Hung-man: Totally unconvincing and barely coherent (standard)

Hung-man

Friday February 10 2012 11:55

*sexism, not feminism. Don't crucify me for a typo, highly-strung people who like to comment on articles.

Matthew Allinson

Friday February 10 2012 11:55

Noose Loosener, I think I can guess who you are, you are better than that completely bullshit "It was Irony" comment.
Grow a pair and just accept that you wrote a shit, unfunny article. We all know they happen occasionally.
Personally I don't think you should apologise because hangman isn't about apologising, but don't couch whatever guilt you possess over writing something so poorly judged and awful with perhaps the stupidest ever defence in history.
It makes you look like a clown and is frankly disappointing.

Stephen, brilliant article. If you could write an article on the thinly veiled racism in the Imperial Memes group for next week I'd love to read it.

Pete

Friday February 10 2012 12:12

Decent article. Sexism is still a problem both in society at large and here at Imperial, which is perhaps not surprising given the gender imbalance. I will say of the Hangman thing though, as unfunny as I find it, it does often just insult men too. And unfortunately the "opinions" espoused by gurl with opinions are actually held by some feminists. The minority to be sure but I have no problem with people making fun of extreme minority positions. I mean, no-one actually took those articles seriously right? The problem come when people believe that they're representative of feminists/women.

@Courtney Williams. I think hysterical ceased to be a gendered insult quite some time ago. I mean, how many people know that it originates as I don't think it's usually used in a gendered way.

Courtney Williams

Friday February 10 2012 12:30

@Pete: Good point - I just find that as soon as I find out the origin of words I can never see them in the same light again! There are lots of interesting discussions to be had on how the meanings of words can evolve. I think this is one example where the word may have evolved enough to be not insulting any more. Still, when I worked it out it was a real eye-opener.

Ethel Bardsley

Friday February 10 2012 12:59

@Courtney @Pete - However, the attitude behind "hysterical" is still prevalent, and still ends up associated with. For example, see the "calm down dear" incident with Cameron. It's worth being aware of what you say before you say it.

@Hung-man - pre-emptive tone argument fail

Keir Little

Friday February 10 2012 13:00

@Hung-man: "If you don't like it, don't read it" is a defence so banal it's on the same level as saying "I doubt you could do better" to someone criticising a film.

Frankly, Hangman is becoming a disgrace to Felix and to Imperial as a whole. It's a shame because it's had some great pieces of comedy in the past, proving that it can do better. Unfortunately, I'm worried that its current stance is reflective of most Imperial students.

Stephen Smith (Author)

Friday February 10 2012 13:06

@Hung-man: I don't think you understand the problem. I would have been happy with an attack on Deborah Meaden for many reasons, I was unhappy because (unlike with Keith) the attack was based on her gender.

"You sacrifice your entire life… to the detriment of your children’s happiness, any respect from the male species, and any form of femininity (like you had that anyway)."

Implying (1) mothers have more responsibility for their children's happiness than fathers, (2) women should seek respect from men, and (3) women should aim to have "femininity" (i.e. they should fit with the writer's narrow idea of how a lady should behave).

You say that if i don't like Hangman I shouldn't read it. I am perfectly happy for Hangman to have the right to say what it does; in return I would like the right to publicly criticise Hangman. Freedom of speech and all that...

Caz Nadel

Friday February 10 2012 13:21

I think I suffer from opposite sexism. Almost everyday in my inbox appears an engineering fair for women; careers for women; **** for women. I've been offered opportunities that none of my male friends have been privvy to, when arguably they were the best men for the job.

Considering Imperial women can virtually have their pick of the lot, those boys in the lecture are likely to be the ones who no woman would look at twice. True, it's offensive, but the women at Imperial are made of sturdier stuff anyway :)

Great article: it's nice to know that guys care about this kind of thing too!

Red Elmahdi

Friday February 10 2012 13:34

Brilliant article - well written and long overdue - obviously it isn't only women who can type!

That Guy

Friday February 10 2012 13:36

Steve,

Take a step away from the computer, stand in front of the kitchen counter, take off your panties, and jump up and down for about a minute.

See that pile on the floor? That's all the sand that was in your vagina.

Now grab me another beer from the fridge.

Nope

Friday February 10 2012 13:39

@Caz Nadel: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Reverse_sexism

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Internalized_sexism

Just because you think it doesn't affect you doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

Gary

Friday February 10 2012 13:44

By being openly sexist, racist and everything else that Hangman is, it is actually being satirical of people who actually are racist, sexist etc. How you have missed this is entirely beyond me. I don't write for Hangman, but I do enjoy reading it occasionally, the same cannot be said about this article that you've written.

Ashamed

Friday February 10 2012 13:46

Theres an article in support of date rape in hangman this week. Wtf is wrong with you ppl?

Harry

Friday February 10 2012 13:53

Thinly veiled attempt to get laid.

Ethel Bardsley

Friday February 10 2012 13:58

@Caz - You haven't been given job offers, you've simply been encouraged to participate. When one considers that women are at times actively discouraged from even doing STEM subjects at A-level, it's important to reach out to them. In a perfect world, such things would not be necessary, but we don't live in such.

concerned reader

Friday February 10 2012 14:10

I assume some people here know who wrote hangman 2009-2010 (Dan's year). He/She is still at Imperial, someone should convince him to write more daft but hilarious articles about pavements and christmas trees

Stephen Smith (Author)

Friday February 10 2012 14:14

Ah, but it isn't. I looked through all this year's Hangmans while writing this and I found that racism and homophobia appear very rarely, but sexism appears approximately once every two weeks. The reason being that racist and homophobic comments (unlike sexism) would probably result in Hangman being banned.

If they are trying to be satirical, then they appear to be mostly satirising openly, heavily sexist people. Since such people are quite rare (especially at a University) why do they spend so much time satirising them?

I think it much more likely that the writers and their friends find sexist jokes funny and they assume that other students will also find them funny. Evidently you are one such student. I am not.

Since my article strongly implied that people like you are unintelligent and closed-minded, I am not particularly surprised that you didn't enjoy it. Please feel free to not enjoy my articles in the future.

Stephen Smith (Author)

Friday February 10 2012 14:17

@Gary: My previous comment was directed at you.

Stephen Smith (Author)

Friday February 10 2012 14:52

@That Guy: How about this: I'll get you a beer if you log in and repost that comment using your real name. If you're going to be a dick, at least have the decency to not do it anonymously.

The above article was wildly unn

Friday February 10 2012 15:41

@Stephen Smith: "You sacrifice your entire life… to the detriment of your children’s happiness, any respect from the male species, and any form of femininity (like you had that anyway)."

"Implying (1) mothers have more responsibility for their children's happiness than fathers, (2) women should seek respect from men, and (3) women should aim to have "femininity" (i.e. they should fit with the writer's narrow idea of how a lady should behave). "

1) It doeesn't mention fathers, or anything about relative levels of responsibility for their children, anywhere in that quote.
2) It doesn't imply women SHOULD seek respect from men, it claims (incorrectly in my opinion) that this particular women has not won respect from men. Perhaps the author was suggesting men's opinion, being so easily lost, is not worth seeking at all. (not that I think he necessarily think he was or wasn't, I'm just saying that you seem to have jumped in a bit heavily here)
3) Once again, the quote does not imply that the woman should have sought out t

Kirstin Hay

Friday February 10 2012 15:46

Stephen,
Great piece. More than needed said. I'm very up for making a feminist society. Could do with a break from the perpetual "funny" misogyny on campus.
Could we also have a "Feminist Friday" column in every Felix to counteract all the sexism?

Kirstin Hay

Friday February 10 2012 15:52

Stephen,
Great piece. More than needed said. I'm very up for making a feminist society. Could do with a break from the perpetual "funny" misogyny on campus.
Could we also have a "Feminist Friday" column in every Felix to counteract all the sexism?

Lottie Holmes

Friday February 10 2012 16:08

you think it's just bad in Felix and adverts? Try teaching when you are about the only woman in the room! I made a complaint to my head of experiment as an undergrad hit on me and made me very uncomfortable, and a couple of others explained to me how they were going to get some girls very drunk as "then it wouldn't be rape"!!

Stephen Smith (Author)

Friday February 10 2012 16:11

@The above article was wildly unn: You're right, it doesn't explicitly claim any of those things, but it does heavily imply them which was the problem.

When criticising Keith O'Nions, for example, Hangman would never say any of the things it said about Deborah Meaden. That his being the Rector was detrimental to his children's lives, that his behaviour had lost him all respect from women, or that he had lost all "masculinity" - none of these would have even crossed the writer's mind. They would criticise him for having a high salary, or for approving of the Life Sciences cuts, or for having a name that sounds like a vegetable. Why is it that Deborah's criticisms are gender-based but Keith's are career-based?

The fact that in Hangman childcare is a relevant topic when talking about women but not when talking about men implies that Hangman thinks women have more childcare responsibilities than men.

The proofs of the other two claims are left as an exercise.

Sam

Friday February 10 2012 16:15

If Hangman can't be clever and run on the right side of the line, then maybe they shouldn't be going anywhere near it in the future. The last time it printed something sexist (albeit in a more obvious manner) at the beginning of the 08-09 year, Hangman was pulled from Felix for the next few months.

If Felix is just turning into another boy's club at Imperial, which maybe it ,isn't maybe it is, they really need to reassess what the newspaper ACTUALLY is to the students at Imperial.

Marissa Lewis

Friday February 10 2012 16:20

I actually submitted a 'Gender Equality Society' (read feminist soc) to the NCC two weeks ago and it was rejected because it was thought we 'lacked substance as a society': this article really couldn't have come at a better time.
Thanks

Joan Hin

Friday February 10 2012 16:20

"...to an outsider it implicitly suggests that, in the world of Imperial, men are considered better at science and engineering than women. This is clearly something likely to make a potential female applicant decide against applying to the university."

Could you claim that as a sexist comment? It is not "clearly" something likely to make a potential female applicant decide against applying to Imperial - I certainly didn't think like this, and I'm sure most other women don't either. Please don't assume that all women are that dumb and pathetic.

I'm a big girl - I'm not intimidated by going to a university dominated by men. It really isn't a big deal. Indeed, there were some universities that I didn't apply to because they had "woman-friendly" policies I found insulting - I wanted to get into university because of what was between my ears, not between my legs.

Having said that, this is an excellent article and I'm really glad that you've brought attention to the issue.

Marissa Lewis

Friday February 10 2012 16:23

I actually submitted a 'Gender Equality Society' (read feminist soc) to the NCC two weeks ago and it was rejected because it was thought we 'lacked substance as a society': this article really couldn't have come at a better time.
Thanks

Joseph Hayward

Friday February 10 2012 16:26

Interesting article, but lacking in some respects.

Firstly, sweeping generalisations of men being misogynistic is wrong. Many will agree with the article and there will always be those that will uphold and defend their comments as part of their rights. Deal with it.

While I do not condone such viciousness of cited comments, that will not stop me from making them at times. And I can assure you there is no maliciousness intended from me. And I see it as humour, but because you do not that makes me vulgar and wrong? Misogyny and sexism can be funny, it is not a sign of end times. Comedy is subjective, and there may be a niche of people who like it and majority frown upon it.

Feminism isn't about equality, it's about independence (can't remember the source of the quote). And "feminists" (I hate using the term but oh well) need to give up on the crusade against misogyny and work towards something more productive than a tit-for-tat name calling. This isn't a playground anymore.

Joseph Hayward

Friday February 10 2012 16:29

Misogyny was meant to be in " " there, with the follwoing (referring of course to the derogatory comments of fellow men). Ran out of figures :(

Slightly reduces weight of argument

Marissa Lewis

Friday February 10 2012 16:31

Feminism is, by definition, about equality. To quote the Oxford English Dictionary, feminism is 'the advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes'. Considering that inequality is still rampant in issues of pay, the media and the criminal justice system, I'm not too sure how campaigning against misogyny is unproductive in any sense.

Stephen Smith (Author)

Friday February 10 2012 16:46

@Joseph Hayward: Firstly, I don't recall making any sweeping generalisations about men being misogynistic. Indeed, being male, that would have been highly ironic.

Secondly, I am perfectly happy for you to find sexist jokes amusing (Incidentally, do you also find racist and homophobic jokes amusing?). But I think you should acknowledge that making such jokes contributes to a culture which objectifies women and, as a consequence, increases the prevalence of discrimination, harassment and rape. As a result, I think you are unintelligent, thoughtless, selfish, and a whole number of other insults which would cause this comment to get moderated.

Joseph Hayward

Friday February 10 2012 16:47

To be totally unfunny and an embodiment of what this article has strived to denounce:

Hasn't got you very far so far...

Sorry, but I couldn't resist. If that wasn't funny, I do apologise. But I found it slightly funny, in the same immature way that I definitely used "your mum" jokes when they went out of fashion.

My point is, not all misogyny is malicious, and some forms have to be tolerated to allow for an equal society. While I agree there are still discrepancies in pay, the media and the justice system, it works both ways... Men tend not to get parental rights, still have to pay child support, considered dumber. The whole "men don't have to go through childbirth" moral high ground is a similar turf. And again, not all women hold that view, but some will. But these issues will not be tackled with what is essentially varying levels of debatable wittiness and name calling.

Absolute equality has been shown to be impossible. Perhaps the definition should change.

Thomas Parsons

Friday February 10 2012 16:50

Parental rights issues and having to pay child support are based on traditional patriarchal ideas about what a man should do. Pretty much every feminist would say they are against these outdated ideas. Feminism isn't some female supremacy movement.

And I think the idea of a society based around people who support feminist ideals "lacking substance" ridiculous, uggh

Chris Reynolds

Friday February 10 2012 16:50

Notice how almost all of the comments under a pseudonym are the ones defending this misogyny? Typical cowardice of people defending the indefensible.

I remember picking up Felix when I arrived at Imperial over three years ago and being amazed at some of the disgusting comments on display. I haven't read the Felix comments, but from the sound of this article, this sexism is obviously endemic. We should have a female editor of Felix, or at least reach out to more females to write articles. (I'm sure this suggestion will be greeted with the usual chorus of males whining about sexism in reverse).

Marissa Lewis

Friday February 10 2012 16:59

Women might be misandrists the same way men might be misogynists, yes. However, feminism is about equality. As Thomas says, feminists are definitely for reforming paternity leave because it is based on the idea that women most definitely should stay home with the children as this is a woman's job and that her career isn't as important as her husband's, so taking 9 months off shouldn't be a big deal (it also tends to be unfair to gay couples or straight couples that adopt their children as well). I don't understand how anyone can say you have to tolerate a level of misogyny (suggesting women are inferior to men) for an equal society, how does that work?

And yeah, there's a petition going round about the society and we're reapplying. Still, was a little demoralised until I saw this article, the fight isn't over! (haha)

Sam

Friday February 10 2012 17:04

@Chris Reynolds: It's all well and good saying that we 'should have a female editor of Felix' - but who chooses the Editor? The student population who votes in the Union Election. There have been plenty of female writers, section editors and even second-in-commands.

The sexism that is undeniably present cannot be pinpointed onto Felix - but Imperial's student population as a whole - and that's the problem.

Matthew Allinson

Friday February 10 2012 17:11

@Chris Reynolds: The exceptionally talented women who write and edit for Felix usually don't stand for editor because they have substantially more illustrious and rewarding things to do with their lives, such as stellar careers and PhDs.

The only one who stood in my memory was knocked out in the first round of voting. I'm sure that if a talented female writer were to stand then she would be in with winning.

As for the writing of articles, I haven't done the numbers (i'll work it out this weekend though) but I think we have a higher proportion of female writers and editors at Felix than there are women at college.

Alex Roberts

Friday February 10 2012 17:11

Well said, Stephen!

I've just seen the latest Hangman, and I'm astonished that any magazine considers it acceptable to print. Of course the author is entitled to his views, but Felix doesn't have to provide him with a platform. He can stand on the street corner and peddle his bile there.

It's disappointing that this post has produced so many hate-filled and ignorant comments. The cause of sexual equality is one which should appeal to everyone - but clearly some people are comfortable with lazily belittling and excluding their fellow people.

Keep up the good work, Stephen, Marissa, and all your allies. I hope you can do something to reduce the persistent sex discrimination in the world of science and technology.

A.

Joseph Hayward

Friday February 10 2012 17:26

@Stephen smith

If they weren't stated outright, it was a subliminal theme that I got. Also one of moral superiority, possibly deserved. Still undecided.

And while I take offence at your barrage of comments, I can't help but identify you with the "boys" you cited in your article.

It was a good article, and stirred some reasonable people to probably be more interested and active a problem that needs solving. Don't undermine that effort with such drivel.

So I acknowledge that making such jokes CAN contribute to a culture which objectifies women and, as a consequence, increases the prevalence of discrimination, harassment.

However rape is a massive leap to criminal activity through other motives, and trivialising it in such a manner does more harm than good. Please don't be so insensitive next time.

Thomas Parsons

Friday February 10 2012 17:34

So you're defending people making rape "jokes" because they're funny and yet accusing OTHER people of trivialising rape because they say this promotes a rape culture? How utterly absurd. I realise you're probably making a joke to make a point but it doesn't work because they're not comparable!

Stephanie Brown

Friday February 10 2012 17:34

Great article, you completely get it Stephen.

Now we just need those who have indulged in such behaviour to just stand back and go 'Hey, maybe that behaviour wasn't on, and my attitude needs to change' instead of just weakly defending themselves. Read the article again. Really think about it this time.

It's not impossible to have a laugh without sexist jokes, you know.

Thomas Parsons

Friday February 10 2012 17:35

Excuse me, funny should have been in quotes. because they're never funny

Marissa Lewis

Friday February 10 2012 17:51

A culture which 'objectifies women and, as a consequence, increases the prevalence of discrimination, harassment' is also a culture which makes sexual assault so widespread. By objectifying women, you are seeing them solely as sexual objects, without thoughts, feelings or opinions of their own; it isn't a massive leap from this kind of view to rape. Rape is commonly thought of as strangers attacking girls in shady alleyways, but the likelihood of a stranger attacking you is actually tiny; we tend to think this way so we don't have to look at people we know as potential rapists. However, as a recent NUS survey found that 1 in 7 female students are sexually assaulted while at university, by protecting ourselves from thinking about our friends (or even ourselves) as rapists is doing a disservice to our female students. Your mate, over there, taking the girl who can't stand up home on a Friday night? That's crossing the line.

Female Eng Graduate 99

Friday February 10 2012 18:02

Thank you for writing this thoughtful article. Unfortunately it will probably not propagate through the web in the same way as the Hangman article has. I found this article by trying to find the original article called "The Hangman Guide to Get Laid", after receiving a tweet about it.

I then found the following statement in the council minutes (council-minutes-11-10-10-3913.pdf)
"If Hangman was online, there may be a high chance of libel for the Union."

If the ICU are aware that Hangman is libellous, then maybe they should think about removing it altogether.

I am still upset about the Hangman article, because I was raped whilst at Imperial, although not by anyone at IC. I understand that we want a free press, but as a graduate, I now think differently about how things can be viewed by people outside of the campus. It reflects badly on the reputation of our institution and on the male student body as a whole.

Gary

Friday February 10 2012 18:05

So your findings are that there's more sexist humour than racist and homophobic humour. I'm not entirely convinced but given you've done the research, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You would be right to say that more racism and homophobia would most likely result in Felix getting banned. That's because Britain has gone PC crazy. As long as it was being "equally racist" (picking on everyone equally an indiscriminately...so by some ironic measure, not actually racist), that would be in my opinion morally acceptable, although I'm sure PC crazy Britain would disagree. The only difference is our attitude towards sexism. Hangman is indiscriminately sexist and clearly not attempting to attack women in any way. So the issue isn't that we are "too tolerant" towards sexist humour, but that some people need to chill out, and see a joke for what it is, be it racist, sexist or what not.

Nice job taking a stab at my intelligence though, that's clearly the only reason I disagree with you

oh dear

Friday February 10 2012 18:53

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9074819/Cook-up-Rohypnol-to-get-laid-student-paper-jokes.html

Lucinda Hazell

Friday February 10 2012 19:39

Why is it that as soon as a girl wants to look feminine or sexy you assume she is degrading herself? I'm all for equal rights for women (being one myself) but please excuse me if I don't burn my bra.

Joseph Hayward

Friday February 10 2012 20:47

@Thomas Parsons: No, I wasn't. In fact if you read you will notice that I don't approve of those that trivialise it. It is not a funny matter, nor is it a phrase to be bandied around for shock value to add weight to an argument.

A Geek

Friday February 10 2012 20:49

@Thomas Parsons: PC KER-AZY.

You can't even say 'black' now without the police comin' in 'ere, knockin' daahn yer door. Time was it was alright to laugh at a fat kid and punch brown-coloured people, now it's all "OH YOU GOT TO RESPECT THEIR FEELINS AND STUFF".

Reveal Hangman?

Friday February 10 2012 22:45

Hiding behind anonymity [this, Hangman, is irony] only serves to give a platform to the anti-social, contemptuous views held by a small group of self-satisfied Felix writers. Humour requires more subtlety than hangman appears capable of.

Felix being Felix I'm sure there will be a tongue in cheek response from hangman next week. His faux sincerity will pour more fuel on to the accusations that these are the mumblings of a man who is not championing the right to free speech, but the right to trivialise a gender unimpeached.

Hangman's insistence that the Imperial experience is a slog through foreigners, ugly women, and - god forbid - science should be seen as a shameful indictment of this man's time at college.

Surely the only hope for hangman is for him to be stripped of his anonymity and referred to a college tutor to find out why he is so resentful of the majority of the student population? The poor lamb. Must have been terrifying to find out that life isn't an episode of Hollyoaks.

Pete

Saturday February 11 2012 01:03

@Kirstin Hay. Wasn't a feminist weekly article attempted by gurl with opionions? I kid. Seriously, take it directly to felix and write it yourself. I'd probably read it.

@Thomas Parsons. I don't particularly like gendered terms such as patriarchy because it kinda suggests a conspiracy of men against women which, I'm almost certain, put many men off. And it's the sort of word that can be defended against all counter example. I can't think of any possible discrimination against men that couldn't be argued to be as a result of the patriarchy (as an aside I completely understand that, unfortunately, women have fewer opportunities in general).

@Stephen Smith. I laugh at all flavours of insulting humour, whether directed against men, women, the english or chinese, gay or straight and especially ucl students. But only if I'm sure there's no malice behind the joke (and providing it's actually funny). That's just how many humans do humour. I just happen to not think hangman is funny.

Stephen Smith (Author)

Saturday February 11 2012 08:42

@Gary: Instead of "political correctness", you should try saying "politeness" because they have exactly the same meaning. Except that fewer people are likely to claim that "politeness gone mad" is a bad thing. (This is completely analogous to coming up with Intelligent Design to make Creationism sound more plausible).

"Hangman is indiscriminately sexist and clearly not attempting to attack women in any way."

Did you read my article? Hangman is very discriminate in its sexism, and it clearly is attempting to attack women . Making any kind of sexist jokes (even ironic ones) contributes to a culture which objectifies women and, as a consequence, increases the prevalence of discrimination, harassment and rape.

And my calling you unintelligent was a logical consequence of this:

You enjoy sexist jokes and try to justify them -> You contribute to a culture that perpetuates hatred of and discrimination against women, without realising -> You are unintelligent.

Jack Maxwell

Saturday February 11 2012 16:48

tl;dr: Some guy took Hangman seriously.

first class physicist

Saturday February 11 2012 19:06

I would imagine this to be a pretty accurate description except in physics lectures there are so few girls that its difficult to even pick a few out to compare.

Maxwell Hargreaves

Saturday February 11 2012 19:24

Congratulations, you took a bunch of misogynistic quotes from Hangman out of context just to further your article. I'm not going to argue whether misogynism is somewhat accepted in Imperial, but if you look at Hangman as a whole you'll see plenty of misandry as well. So Hangman reduced women to their looks in that article? I guess if you included the other half you'd see that it laid into the men in exactly the same superficial manner. You can't take general misanthropy, cut out half of it and then label it as sexism. It's like saying a bacon sandwich is vegetarian if you ignore the bacon.

I must stress that this is regardless of whether or not Hangman should be taking the piss out of people in general for the sake of comedy: it's a rather lazy way of getting laughs and maybe it should strive to take its collective mind out of the gutter.

Adrian

Saturday February 11 2012 20:47

Feminists have got their knickers in a twist about some lame Hangman article.

I honestly can't believe some people can't take it with a pinch of salt and move on with their lives. The fact that the topic of rape has been made a taboo subject is extremely counterproductive to ensuring men and women don't get taken advantage of.

The other two crimes in the UK which carry life sentences - murder and arson - if they were the topic of the Hangman article, nobody would bat an eyelid.

i wish

Saturday February 11 2012 23:56

there were actually girls in imperial like the one on the picture

Unheard Voice

Sunday February 12 2012 02:41

In regard to the date rape article on Hangman:

I was sexually abused when I was 7 by a relative of mine. Okay, it's not rape, but it's close. I read the article, laughed and got over it. You get over these things because they happen.

Everyone over reacted over it horribly. Yes, rape is not funny. But Hangman is meant to be satirical and almost like an angry person somewhere is speaking.

RAPE EXISTS! Intelligent people like the students of Imperial squabbling over it on a student newspaper (representative of a student perspective) will not change anything.

Just one word of advice to all you people over reacting to that article, at Imperial, yeah we might joke about it but ALL of us have the sense to not practice 'date rape'. But in some corners of the world, this kind of thing is an every day occurence and b****ing about it won't stop a thing.

PLEASE, stop over reacting to something that was meant to be a joke. Because that's what it was meant to be. A joke.

@ The various lads

Sunday February 12 2012 13:44

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/12/uni-lad-website-closure-banter

Guardian has another article about the problem of your "Lad" banter. Don't worry, it is written by a woman, so you can dismiss her as a mad feminist if it helps you reconcile her opinions with your world view.

And a bonus congratulations to the twats in the union who read this article and saw it as an excuse to be sexist to the women at the bar on Friday evening. Under the dubious justification that "Woman are going to whine about us being sexist anyway - we should just be sexist, get over it love".

Marissa Lewis

Sunday February 12 2012 16:05

The problem isn't that people can't recognise these comments as 'jokes': the problem is that the jokes aren't funny. People getting drugged with Rohypnol happens. Being a student at Imperial does not make you somehow immune (to either getting raped or being a rapist), and telling students to cook up Rohypnol to get laid is trivialising a very serious crime and contributing to a culture which cements a male's entitlement to sex at the expense of his female partner. It's supposed to be satire, I get it, but considering how severely under-reported rape is, how ridiculously prevalent rape is, and how damaging rape is, I find telling students to do it (no matter how satirically) is frankly disrespectful to rape victims in particular and women in general.
And that's without considering what damage articles like that do to our reputation as an institution. We're male dominated, we don't have a women's group, yet we have a student paper which is overtly (but satirically!) misogynistic. Ha ha.

Unheard Voice

Sunday February 12 2012 17:08

@Marissa Lewis

As a victim of sexual abuse myself, I didn't think the article was 'disrespectful' at all. It fully depends on what kind of stance you take over rape. Luckily for myself, I think rape is wrong but I don't stand and moan about it because you can tell people rape is wrong but you cant change some people's sick attitudes towards it.

I understand that rape is under-reported but so are oodles of other crimes! If a joke was made about some other crime, not a single **** would have been given.

As a female, I frankly, LOATHE the double standards society has set over the role of men and women. If the same article was about male-rape, I doubt we'd have this hoo-haa over it. SO WHAT if our society is dominated by men? It's not like us women are being oppressed! We are free to do whatever we want, free to fight for what we want, free to believe in what we want. There are cultures around the world that oppress far more than ours. I'm just grateful I was born into this one.

Marissa Lewis

Sunday February 12 2012 17:56

I am glad you don't feel offended by the article (and I'm very sorry that ever happened to you), but that doesn't mean all other victims feel the same. My point was by publishing jokes like those about Rohypnol, you are making such 'sick attitudes' socially acceptable, which is a real problem when you do try and combat rape in our society.
Up to 90 percent of rapes aren't reported, which is actually shocking compared to other crimes. This is partly due to the natural shame/guilt victims feel after an attack and also partly due to a society which tends to overestimate the falsehood of these reports, blames the victim for rape and also where only six percent of rapes that are reported to the police actually end in a conviction. I can't really talk about hypothetical male rape jokes, but no I wouldn't find those funny either, even if male rape is nowhere near as prevalent in our society.
As for not being oppressed, you're right as long as you ignore pay, the media and the justice system.

Marissa Lewis

Sunday February 12 2012 18:44

Also, here's an online petition asking for support for an Imperial Women's Rights Society. Please sign if you support the cause, thanks!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/icwrs/

Julia

Sunday February 12 2012 20:45

This is an amazing article Steven, thank you.

On " Imperial College ... constantly admits twice as many male applicants as female ones", it's so hard to come here when you see the m:f ratio and it's something Imperial need to sort out.
They should be encouraging more women to come to Imperial by lowering the grade offerings for females, in the long run it'll benefit everyone.

Kelly Oakes

Sunday February 12 2012 22:00

Great article Stephen.

Anyone that truly believes men and women are equal in our society needs to open their eyes (or, to put it in a way more Imperial people might get, take the red pill: http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4051).

The old "it's worse somewhere else" excuse is not good enough either - doing nothing about sexism and oppression on our own doorstep is not going to help stop sexism and oppression of women elsewhere in the world.

...

Sunday February 12 2012 22:42

@Julia
"They should be encouraging more women to come to Imperial by lowering the grade offerings for females, in the long run it'll benefit everyone."

So much for equality...

Chris Reynolds

Sunday February 12 2012 23:40

@Adrian You really think "nobody would bat an eyelid" if this article had advocated murder or arson instead of rape? You think everyone would be OK with it if the title had been something like "Get revenge on the woman who turned you down this Valentine's day", and then went about outlining the process of poisoning a women's drink in a jokey way, maybe recommending a poison that breaks down quickly and would help you avoid detection? Or if the article had been all about burning down a woman's house, recommending a good firestarter and accelerant, maybe "Warm the heart of the one you love this Valentine's day"?

Also, jokes about murder are not going to be heard by any murder victims. But jokes about rape can be heard by rape survivors, especially when they are printed in a newspaper distributed to an entire student body. And heard by quite a few rapists, who are going to enjoy laughing about a crime they've committed, and quite likely have never endured any consequences for.

Chris Reynolds

Monday February 13 2012 00:12

@Unheard Voice
You have my respect for dealing with your abuse in such a positive manner, and I know that there are many survivors of rape/other trauma who deal with their experiences by making light of it. I am for free speech and oppose any ban, but I think people should be able to choose when they read them, especially if it could be a painful experience. i.e. Not printed in the student newspaper.

@Julia
They probably don't even need to lower the grades. Just to make it less likely to reject an application with the required grades. Oxbridge do a similar thing for applicants who didn't attend public school or have a lower socioeconomic status. Student intake should have some element of choosing students who would give a positive contibution to the university.

@...
Not necessarily unequal. Much as it pains me to say it, UCL is equally as good and requires similar grades. Also I hear they have even more offensive rape jokes for all these "lads" who seem to need to see them so much.

Parson Thomas

Monday February 13 2012 00:23

@Thomas Parsons: "Parental rights issues and having to pay child support are based on traditional patriarchal ideas about what a man should do. Pretty much every feminist would say they are against these outdated ideas. Feminism isn't some female supremacy movement."

"traditional patriarchal ideas about what a man should do."

Bollocks. It's based on the fact that the man jizzed in the woman's vagina and needs to take responsibility for the consequences.

asdfghjkl

Monday February 13 2012 00:26

@Marissa Lewis: "It's supposed to be satire, I get it, but considering how severely under-reported rape is, how ridiculously prevalent rape is, and how damaging rape is, I find telling students to do it (no matter how satirically) is frankly disrespectful to rape victims in particular and women in general. "

Just as many men (if not more) get raped, and one could argue that the effects are more lasting and more damaging for men (i.e. having to learn to shit again). "Rape" isn't offensive to women at all, it's offensive to people who have been raped.

Sexism

Monday February 13 2012 00:32

Sexism is inevitable and inescapable as long as there is a perceptible difference between men and women.

If a man goes out wearing a dress, he will be frowned upon by many people. Surely he should be able to wear whatever he wants? Sexism?

Female

Monday February 13 2012 00:38

@Thomas Parsons: Your assertion that a feminist society should be set up conforms to traditional patriarchal ideas about what a man should do because it suggests that women are unable to set up a society by themselves (as thus far they have been unsuccessful), and that with your approval they may be successful.

This archaic portrait of The Man being the provider really has no place in today's society and you ought to be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

Rockets

Monday February 13 2012 00:41

This comment did not follow our commenting policy and has been rejected

Marissa Lewis

Monday February 13 2012 10:39

@asdfghjkl: I'm going to take a leap and answer you as if you're being at all serious.
I'm sorry, but where did you get your stats? The highest estimate I could find was that 1 in 10 rape victims were male, and most of these crimes tended to happen in institutions (namely prisons, which is arguably a separate issue) and, once again, the overwhelming majority of attackers were male too. It is hard to get accurate statistics on rape as so few are reported, but I have no idea how (even anecdotally) you could think males are equally at risk as females when 80 000 women are raped every year in the UK. I'm not getting into a 'whose rape is worse?' debate because that is frankly disgusting, but I think you may have taken my comments out of context. Of course males can get raped too, and it is every bit as awful as females getting raped, but the article was encouraging male students to drug and rape women, not the other way round. Hence why I (surprisingly) thought it was particularly offensive to women.

Rape

Monday February 13 2012 11:19

This comment did not follow our commenting policy and has been rejected

Prospective student

Tuesday May 08 2012 00:25

Currently deciding whether to go to UCL or Imperial and reading this is certainly putting me off Imperial

Comment anonymously or log in

Anonymous comments are moderated before appearing on the website. Comments posted while logged in appear immediately and are moderated later. Read our commenting policy for more information.

Commenting Policy

Felix is fully supportive of fierce and frank discussions. We will generally allow comments that are on-topic and avoid personal attacks; criticising someone's decision is allowed, criticising their weight, for example, is not.

Comments may be deleted/rejected if they:

  • are off-topic
  • contain ad-hominem attacks
  • are potentially libellous
  • use excessively foul language
  • are obviously spam

Email article

Sexism at Imperial College
(Seperate multiple address with a comma)