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24/05/13

Imperial falls in university ranking

Controversy over drop from 10th to 13th in latest Guardian tables
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The ‘value added’ score in the rankings have been criticised by Jason Parmar

Imperial has dropped from 10th to 13th place in the Guardian University Guide 2013, the results of which were published on Monday 21 May. The guide, which ranks universities across the United Kingdom, saw institutions ranked across various areas, including results from the National Student Survey, expenditure per student, and the student to staff ratio.

The continued presence of a ‘Value Added’ category in the results has caused significant controversy. The result, a score out of ten, is formulated by comparing a university’s entry requirements with students’ final degree results, which ostensibly helps to determine the effectiveness of teaching at an institution. Imperial scored 4.5/10 in comparison to the leader of the rankings Cambridge, who scored 5.7 and second place Oxford, scoring 6.7.

The University of Hertfordshire saw the highest score under the ‘Value Added’ category, with a score of 7.7 out of 10. The University had an overall ranking of 76th on the table.

Imperial did however see success on the table with relation to the category ‘Career Prospects’. The score for this category is the percentage of graduates who find graduate-level jobs, or further study, within six months of graduation. Scoring 84% under the category, this placed the institution above the London School of Economics’ relative score of 82% at the top of the leaderboard for this category.

Imperial is placed third amongst the London-based universities, with the London School of Economics being placed in 3rd position overall, and University College London placed at 6th position.

Deputy President (Education) Jason Parmar was particularly outspoken on Imperial’s position in the rankings, and league tables in general:

“I believe that prioritising the student experience as a criteria for UK league tables is commendable of the Guardian, The Sunday Times and others. However, it is fair to say that the methodology of these tables have meant that they can be seen as doing a complete disservice to the prospective students who use them” 

“We should be asking ourselves the question: should career prospects and research have greater weighting in modern league tables if we are to provide future students with a good service? In the current financial climate career prospects are crucial to a student’s choice of university, now more so than ever. The fact that the Guardian league table doesn’t even consider research worries me.

“In addition, their analysis and measure of the student experience, which contributes so heavily in the table, is unreliable as it is based solely on the National Student Survey. We even saw in Felix that the NSS could be hacked by students with very little effort. In addition to this the three student experience areas taken from the NSS are ‘Overall Satisfaction’, ‘Feedback’ and ‘Teaching’. But this doesn’t cover, for example, ‘Learning Resources’, which is a very important part of the student experience.”

Parmar was particularly vocal regarding the ‘Value Added’ category: 

“Although in principle the ‘Value Added’ category aims to “show how effective teaching is”, it could easily do the exact opposite. To top the table in this criteria, which is worth 15% of the overall score, a university can simply increase the amount of firsts and upper seconds it awards, lower its entry requirements, and have terrible teaching effectiveness. This is counter productive as it lessens the academic integrity of graduates, and hence the table can easily misguide prospective students.”

Comments (15 comments)

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Perhaps

Thursday May 24 2012 23:14

we need more people like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqI5cW9S7ZE

Anonymous

Friday May 25 2012 05:20

With exception to the 'Value Added' category, which I find a bit dodgy as well, are we honestly going to defend our performance on league tables by denying student experience matters?

Since I have joined Imperial I don't think there's a single year where we have significantly improved our position, and all of this has been largely due to student experience surveys (NSS, THES, etc.). Similar surveys at other universities (esp Oxbridge) seem to net them better results, so why can't we talk about why we're so rubbish without dismissing it as a factor?

It may not matter for some students, but I'm sure some people have second thoughts when seeing the stark difference between overall performance and our experience.

Anonymous

Friday May 25 2012 05:24

Oh, and just to comment on the NSS thing. I know 'we all saw it could be hacked' earlier this year, but to state that as if we are the sole victims of a cross-university conspiracy to inflate NSS results at our expense is ridiculous.

What next? Blame the library doors on a conspiracy between rogue architects from UCL and Royal Holloway?

Bigger story...

Friday May 25 2012 09:08

Why are some of Imperial's departments still so sub-par with feedback. The NSS scores in the university table is not a sum over all students, it is a weighted sum over department scores. Looking at feedback we have:

Civ Eng - 50%
Mech Eng - 55%
Maths - 51%
Physics - 52%

In these subjects 2 in every 5 students is unsatisfied or neutral about the feedback given on their work. Feedback should not be hard to get right. Until Jason Parmer and others in the university get their heads out of their arses and stop moaning about how entitled we are to high league table positions nobody is going to be putting sufficient pressure on academics.

It should be an offence worthy of losing your teaching positions to give insufficient feedback on work. Marked work gong back to students should be checked to ensure the scrawlings are helpful.

Imperial has to stop ballsing up teaching, or it will continue to fall in the rankings.

Marcus A Shepheard

Friday May 25 2012 11:24

It is unfortunate that these league tables get much credence, even the ones which rank us highly. The methodologies are all remarkably arbitrary, a consequence of trying to measure something qualitative and failing.

As far as NSS goes, I suspect the College would do better if they focused a little less on running the College as a business, and putting business interests before student interests.

Thomas Elliott

Friday May 25 2012 11:31

There's not much we can do about the value added score, but student satisfaction is an area that needs dramatic improvement.

This is an area

Friday May 25 2012 13:20

That the Union should have really been focussing on

Jason Parmar

Friday May 25 2012 13:48

#Jason Parmar

Several people seem to be assuming the NSS is a perfect measure of student experience!?

To clarify, it's absolutely unquestionable that the student experience at Imperial College needs to be radically improved.
We study at a "world-class university" and we deserve to be truly world-class in everything we do, not just research.
It was excellent to see the Rector set the number 1 priority of this academic year to improve the student experience. It resonated around the college, but it'll take well over one year to transform.

However, the NSS as a measure of student experience is fundamentally flawed. There are countless examples of it being unreliable and incorrect.
E.g. the lecturer from Kingston who was actually filmed saying to his students "put strongly agree for everything and your degree will be of more value!"

There's even perhaps a scary truth behind the joke from the President of Cambridge
"I think we're maybe wise enough to know it's a league table metric :P"

Jason Parmar

Friday May 25 2012 13:50

@This is an area: https://www.union.ic.ac.uk/blogs/2011/10/20/nss-response/
http://felixonline.co.uk/news/2483/lecture-podcasting-to-become-reality/

Anonymous Coward

Friday May 25 2012 16:38

I wouldn't attach to much credence to this table. It is from the Guardian afterall, something more akin to a Labour Party Manifesto then a Newspaper...

Lucas

Saturday May 26 2012 02:26

Nobody takes universities like Bath or Loughborough (where the fuck is it?) seriously, I hope that a nice place in bullshitty guardian table will ease their pain of starting their careers with a pitiful graduate salary of 25k.

Facepalm

Saturday May 26 2012 07:51

@Lucas: And there we have it: everything that's wrong with Imperial.

It's full of tossers who came to study science, not because they're interested in learning about the world, but because they want a job in banking.

You may not have noticed, Lucas, but 25k is more than what a PhD student earns.

Philip Kent

Saturday May 26 2012 13:17

@Lucas: "Nobody takes universities like Bath or Loughborough (where the fuck is it?) seriously"

That's just ludicrous. Just because you don't seem to appreciate them doesn't mean that they are generally very highly regarded. Loughborough in particular is notable for its engineering, which is highly regarded with industry.

Believe it or not, institutions outside of the Oxbridge and Imperial bubble are perfectly capable of being outstanding.

And, for the record, Loughborough is near Nottingham, which if you have no idea about the Midlands, is near-ish to Birmingham (that is West Midlands, L'borough is East Midlands).

Verily

Saturday May 26 2012 17:21

Tho art, each and every one, infuriated, mine fraternal siblings.

Fcek

Thursday May 31 2012 18:56

This comment did not follow our commenting policy and has been rejected

Tamburlaine

Thursday May 31 2012 23:21

This comment did not follow our commenting policy and has been rejected

Facepalm

Friday June 01 2012 03:08

Civ Eng dropped in the guardaian from 1st just last year to 12th. Honestly wouldn't have come here if they were 12th (only in the guardian) when I applied!!

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